Comments on: The “Christmas Wars” http://www.mountebank.org/blog/230/the-christmas-wars/ There is nothing so impossible in nature... Thu, 15 Dec 2011 20:56:24 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Joe http://www.mountebank.org/blog/230/the-christmas-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-105 Joe Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:26:55 +0000 http://www.mountebank.org/blog/?p=230#comment-105 Thanks, Ruru. I think these are some excellent points, and I don't mean to say or imply that all non-Christians do (or should) feel the same way as I do. As you say, everyone has their own coping mechanisms, and the important thing, I think, is not to say that one coping mechanism is right or wrong, but to promote a sensitivity and awareness to the fact that others don't always see things in the same way as we do. You're completely right to point that out...and your perspective on it is absolutely valid. I do think, though, that there are a couple of major differences between the situation of me in the US, and you in Hong Kong. (But in both of these, I may be completely wrong, through not knowing enough about Hong Kong--and your situation there). I think there's an outsider/insider distinction, which affects how one feels about the customs/traditions of the majority. In the US, at least in terms of government and official functions, there's supposed to be neutrality. It's <strong>not</strong> a Christian country. Everyone, whether Christian or Jewish or Baha'i or whatever, is supposed to be equally an insider, equally represented and equally respected. This is supposed to be <strong>my</strong> country (and yours and Pat Robertson's and Geoffrey's, and Pandit's and Mohammed's, etc.), so even though I'm not in the majority, I'm specifically and explicitly entitled, by the national character and fundamental principles, to the same rights and treatment from the government as anyone else. We don't even have an official national language (although some think we should), and I think that's something that makes the US different, in a way that's worth defending. It's not really the personal, individual expressions of holiday celebration that bother me. People (of course) should feel free to enjoy and decorate and celebrate and sing whatever they want. It's when the dominance takes over the public sphere, and particularly takes over the public schools, or government buildings, and so on, that I feel there's a danger that we lose the guaranteed diversity and neutrality and secularism which I find so important. But I very much appreciate that it's possible for non-Christians to still enjoy and not feel at all oppressed or offended by even nativity scenes, even in public schools. And it's possible for Christians to feel like they belong in churches and homes, rather than schools and post offices. Merry Christmas!!! :grin: Thanks, Ruru. I think these are some excellent points, and I don’t mean to say or imply that all non-Christians do (or should) feel the same way as I do. As you say, everyone has their own coping mechanisms, and the important thing, I think, is not to say that one coping mechanism is right or wrong, but to promote a sensitivity and awareness to the fact that others don’t always see things in the same way as we do. You’re completely right to point that out…and your perspective on it is absolutely valid.

I do think, though, that there are a couple of major differences between the situation of me in the US, and you in Hong Kong. (But in both of these, I may be completely wrong, through not knowing enough about Hong Kong–and your situation there). I think there’s an outsider/insider distinction, which affects how one feels about the customs/traditions of the majority.

In the US, at least in terms of government and official functions, there’s supposed to be neutrality. It’s not a Christian country. Everyone, whether Christian or Jewish or Baha’i or whatever, is supposed to be equally an insider, equally represented and equally respected. This is supposed to be my country (and yours and Pat Robertson’s and Geoffrey’s, and Pandit’s and Mohammed’s, etc.), so even though I’m not in the majority, I’m specifically and explicitly entitled, by the national character and fundamental principles, to the same rights and treatment from the government as anyone else.

We don’t even have an official national language (although some think we should), and I think that’s something that makes the US different, in a way that’s worth defending.

It’s not really the personal, individual expressions of holiday celebration that bother me. People (of course) should feel free to enjoy and decorate and celebrate and sing whatever they want. It’s when the dominance takes over the public sphere, and particularly takes over the public schools, or government buildings, and so on, that I feel there’s a danger that we lose the guaranteed diversity and neutrality and secularism which I find so important.

But I very much appreciate that it’s possible for non-Christians to still enjoy and not feel at all oppressed or offended by even nativity scenes, even in public schools. And it’s possible for Christians to feel like they belong in churches and homes, rather than schools and post offices.

Merry Christmas!!! :grin:

]]> By: Ruru http://www.mountebank.org/blog/230/the-christmas-wars/comment-page-1/#comment-104 Ruru Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:31:12 +0000 http://www.mountebank.org/blog/?p=230#comment-104 You know, I'm been thinking about this since your first post on the topic, and I must say, I have a different reaction. Though I'm no Christian, the trappings of Christmas don't feel oppressive to me. In fact, I feel somewhat the same way about them as I did about Chinese festivals when I lived in Hong Kong. Most everybody celebrated them, they were fun, I got time off work, and I even participated in some of the rituals. I enjoyed myself and enoyed other people's enjoyment of the holidays, even when the holidays meant nothing to me. Now, admittedly, most Chinese festivals are based on the agricultural calendar rather than on religion, and the virtues celebrated are things like the family being together (who can object to that?) so no, there is no religious belief to disagree with. And there are myriad other differences, of course, but what I'm trying to say is that I enjoy Christmas for the cold weather, the decorated trees, the gift-giving, the family get-together. I do understand why you (and many others) would feel the way you do, but just wanted to let you know that not all non-Christians do. I think all minorities have evolved ways of coping with majority cultures. Some might say my strategy is blind to the pernicious effects of majority domination, but I think I'm extracting the positive from the situation while remaining watchful for any infringement of my minority rights. You know, I’m been thinking about this since your first post on the topic, and I must say, I have a different reaction. Though I’m no Christian, the trappings of Christmas don’t feel oppressive to me. In fact, I feel somewhat the same way about them as I did about Chinese festivals when I lived in Hong Kong. Most everybody celebrated them, they were fun, I got time off work, and I even participated in some of the rituals. I enjoyed myself and enoyed other people’s enjoyment of the holidays, even when the holidays meant nothing to me.

Now, admittedly, most Chinese festivals are based on the agricultural calendar rather than on religion, and the virtues celebrated are things like the family being together (who can object to that?) so no, there is no religious belief to disagree with. And there are myriad other differences, of course, but what I’m trying to say is that I enjoy Christmas for the cold weather, the decorated trees, the gift-giving, the family get-together. I do understand why you (and many others) would feel the way you do, but just wanted to let you know that not all non-Christians do.

I think all minorities have evolved ways of coping with majority cultures. Some might say my strategy is blind to the pernicious effects of majority domination, but I think I’m extracting the positive from the situation while remaining watchful for any infringement of my minority rights.

]]>